PODCAST EPISODE: Talking Shop With Angela Henderson on WAHM life

In this episode, I speak to Angela from Finlee and Me and is signed with Nuffnang and Netflix for blogging and is speaker at ProBlogger. If that wasn’t enough she is a business consultant and runs events and one on one coaching.

Find Angela over at:

Nat: Hi Angela

Angela: Hello, how are you today?

Nat: I’m awesome! For everyone at home, I’ve got Angela on the line. I’m going to give you a chance to tell us all what you do in a second, but I just have to say I’ve had the most awesome conversation with you for the last 20 minutes, and I really wish we’d hit record because it’s just the real life mum in business stuff. I’m super excited to chat with you but why don’t we start off by telling everyone what you do, and we can take it from there.

Angela: I’ve been in business now for close to last 7 years. My first business is called Finlee and Me where we focus on creating childhood memories through play, love and travel. We have over 1400 different baby products that we stock in our store. I wanted to provide the Australian community with the opportunity to spark their kids’ imaginations and focus on creativity, working on their fine motor skills and gross motor skills while playing with our products. From the business I also have a blog where I write about a variety of things like activities for kids or the loneliness of motherhood. I’ve talked about depression and other mental health related stuff, so it’s really just about providing a community for awesome mums to feel safe and nurtured during their journey of motherhood. And from that I’m now a blogger, one of Australia’s Top 30 bloggers of Netflix and I also blog with Australian leading blogging influencer agency, Nuffnang. So that’s a little bit about Finlee and Me.

Nat: I love that. I love that so much. So you’ve mentioned blogging and just based on the conversation that we were having before, we were saying that there needs to be a person who stands in front of the business. I think traditionally a lot of people would set up a business and be like, yeah we sell a product… but you obviously buffered out from that a lot, and thought, ok, so what else is my target market interested in and what else can I write about? Do you want to give me some more information about how that feathered out from just a business?

Angela: So I went into blogging from a strategic point of view. I knew that I couldn’t keep putting on Facebook, Instagram wasn’t around at that time, or in my newsletter, only my products. People would feel bored or overwhelmed and they would drop off. I needed to look at my ideal client, niche down, what is it that they like? But instead of assuming what they liked, I went back and surveyed them and they gave me a whole abundance of different options of things I could blog about. So instead of just posting about my products, I now blend my blog articles with my products so that I’m not just selling, selling selling all the time. So that’s really where it initially came from.

Nat: So it sounds like instead of hard selling you were coming from a place of serving and giving value and creating connections and relationships instead of ,’Here, buy my shit.’ which is I think where a lot of businesses especially when getting started, they jump in because they want sales and they want to start making money. But it’s almost like, and definitely in my mind, if you delay that gratification and take the path of serving and giving, it creates an undercurrent of people coming back to you, don’t you think?  

Angela: I do agree with that. I guess it’s two-fold for me. One is that I wanted to give back to my community other than me just selling my product. But too, when you’re selling a product you go from a cold audience to a warm audience to a hot audience so you need to provide them value but also to have them gain my trust and gain some authority about what I’m talking about. And thirdly, I’ve been able to build my Finlee and Me community because of serving and giving trust.

Nat: Yeah trust and serving and authority is massive. So, I had a look at your Facebook page the other day and how many likes or fans do you have on there? Is it like 60,000?

Angela: It’s just under 70,000, so I think we’re at 69,000 and a little bit.

Nat: Would you say there’s one main thing that has helped your page grow to those levels?

Angela: I think early in the days to be honest, we were very fortunate when we did a lot of giveaways and collaborations with other businesses in the same niche market. We were lucky because we didn’t have as many restrictions as there are now with Rafflecopter. People can’t go and directly like your page in order to get an entry. They can choose to but they don’t have to. So I think that was one thing, there was a lot of collaboration going on in the early days. We would give away Thermomix’s, one was a car, and then you needed particular permits. But aside from that I think it’s about creating a community and being consistent. And I know we hear that a lot and I know some people choose to be consistent and others don’t but every day we are connecting with our community and promoting value over Facebook. So we post 4 times a day minimum. When I say ‘we’ you might wonder who I mean. So it’s the VA’s that I have. They help me with keeping up to date with the social media because it’s just so much to do with the Angela Henderson Consulting and the Finlee and Me, and do it really well. So that’s what we do, we just keep it really consistent.

Nat: So we were chatting about outsourcing just before and I think that’s a segue to go into…. You said you recently did a Facebook live about outsourcing and can you…

Angela: I think it’s really important, as we were talking about earlier, when we start you have to find out what you’re really good at, what tasks you absolutely hate and want to gouge your eyes out with, and what’s holding us back in our business. So I started to look, because I also work full time as a mental health clinician, that I couldn’t do everything myself. So what was it that I liked? I didn’t mind doing the blogging. I didn’t mind sourcing the product but what I absolutely hated was uploading the product to the website and making sure it was SEO optimised. And I also absolutely hated doing the repetitiveness of social media. There are clients on my Facebook pages that I will pop in there and do a Facebook Lives on a regular basis, I will post images of my kids. So when it’s something I’m really passionate about and that I love, I’m always connected. But when it’s just reposting a blog then I don’t feel it’s worth my time to sit there and do that. So that’s how that happened. But in regards to outsourcing, there’s different things that people can outsource all the time.

Nat: Definitely. And I totally agree with that and I love what we said before which was, we talk about outsourcing and automation a lot but I’m a big believer that we need to start off doing the things so we can see how the whole process unfolds, then we determine where our strengths and weaknesses are and do exactly as you said, outsource our weaknesses or outsource the things that don’t light us up.

And I also think that what happens with a lot of people is they think, ‘Oh that’s going to cost me $20 or $30 or $40 an hour and I just don’t know if I can afford that.’ But the way I would look at it is that my time is so much more valuable than that. I can generate more income by spending income if that makes sense. And I think we get hung up on that a lot. We think, ‘I can’t afford it or I can’t do it. I need to make X amount of money.’ But you’ll get there faster if you can free up your time to work on the parts the light you up and the profit-making parts of your business, where you know you can spend the majority of your time.

I do my own Facebook ads because I haven’t been able to find anyone I like enough to hand it over to. But I had a chat to someone yesterday and she’s pretty expensive, $3000 a month, which is crazy, but she is next level and I need to take my ads to next level. And what I was weighing up in my mind was 1, yes, it’s a lot of money and 2, how much further ahead will I get my business and how much more people can I serve by outlaying that, and I feel like the benefits will far outweigh the amount of money and I feel that sometimes we look at money as a block when really, we should be asking what would it cost us if we don’t do it?

Angela: Absolutely, I couldn’t agree more. And sometimes people go, ‘Oh I don’t have the money to do it but…’ One of my friends is a Facebook strategist and it’s like for every dollar you’re spending, you’re making $2. So yes, even though at the end of the month your bill is going to be high with the Facebook ads, but if you think about it, you’re making double than what you’re actually outlaying. I think that sometimes people do have that block and think, ‘Oh I don’t really know’, or ‘I’ll just wait a little bit longer.’ But can I also say, never be afraid to test something. You don’t have to commit for 12 months, you can always try it in small chunks. Same thing with the majority of VA’s that you can outsource to. You can say do a 30-day or a 60-day contract and then if they don’t hold their end of the bargain, get rid of them! It doesn’t have to be forever.

Nat: That’s right and I’ve hired a lot of people because I have a team of 15 now and what I’ve realised is that sometimes you just can’t pick whether they’re shit or not at the start and you just have to give it a go. I know there’s lots of OCD people out there who want to take their time, they want to go through a whole interview process, they want to get them to answer a thousand questions, but I’ve tried many different ways and people who I thought were going to be amazing were not, and people who I wasn’t sure about have turned out to be really good. So, my philosophy on that is just to give it a go like you said and work it out. And if they’re not good then remove them and the search continues to find that perfect person.

Angela: Absolutely and what I’ve found from my personal experience is that I have a lady from the Philippines and I work with one in Australia, both lovely, both amazing, but I do sense –and other people have told me this too who use Filipino VA’s – is that there’s a sense of loyalty. And I don’t know how to describe that or what that is, and it’s not that my Australian VA isn’t loyal, but what I’m saying is that maybe it’s just that they don’t get many opportunities over there to do this kind of work, and maybe it’s something that gives them pride and fulfilment. I haven’t nailed it yet. But it’s amazing to see how loyal they are. She says, I’ll do the posting for Instagram on Saturday and Sunday to give you and your family a break, and so for two years, even though I’ve constantly said I would do it, whether it’s a fear that I’m going to take her job away, I don’t know, but after two years of working with Marg, she works 7 days a week to make sure that my needs are taken care of which is lovely, but she too needs a break obviously. That’s not to say all of them are going to be like that but the one I have is amazing.

Nat: I have one that I use for really really basic stuff and she’s been with me for nearly a year now, almost from the start, so I totally agree they’re 100% dedicated. But I also know that a lot of people think it’s going to be the easiest thing to go and find one, but it can be a bit hit and miss, so when you find a good one, you hold them down and you do not let them go!

Angela: I totally agree!

Nat: I wanted to chat to you about a few things but the next thing I thought of because you mentioned Facebook Live a little while ago and that triggered something that had also been turning over in my mind, which is…. It’s about women playing small in business. and I think where this came from was that I actually feel I’ve been doing it a little bit over the last few months, and when we were chatting and you said you were going to jump into my group and do a coaching session for all your clients. I was like, ‘Awesome!’ and you said you’d post and you’d ask them, and the next minute, you’re Facebook Living and I so did not expect that! And I think it’s so awesome that you just jumped in because I know some people have a lot of fear around Facebook Live, I know I do a little bit. It’s not something that I would do, but when you see someone else going out and doing it, you think wow that’s awesome. So yeah, do you think people play small and do you have any tips for them around how you think they could move up and stop playing small?

Angela: Are we just talking about FB Live?

Nat: I think just in general. Like putting themselves out there. Like for me Facebook Live, I don’t like doing it, but when I saw you doing it, I thought, you’re just going out there and not playing small at all. But I think a lot of people have a lot of fear and they just stay small. So, they may not post something or they may be scared to say their true feelings on the blog. Just in any type of situation.

Angela: Ok. Look I don’t necessarily think people wake up and say, ‘I’m going to play small.’ It’s definitely fear driven. Or it’s that they know what they need to do but they don’t know how to do it. And that’s why I work with a lot of my coaching clients, and I say, ‘This is how we do it and these are the steps to do it.’ I think a lot of people know exactly what they need to do. I think a lot of women will say they absolutely need to be on Facebook Live. They need to be stepping up their game. They need to get out of networking….. you can only do so much.

But Facebook Live and networking a lot with people face-to-face to me, are the two things if you’re not doing it in your business, you should be. It builds an immediate connection with people. You leave a memory in people’s brains more so than if it’s written in text and I think, don’t be afraid, just do it. I mean, what’s the worst case scenario in a Facebook Live for example that can happen? You delete it, I mean really! Are you going to lose your whole business because of a Facebook Live? No! But could you gain momentum for your business? Absolutely! Also the cool thing with Facebook and Facebook Live is you can actually retarget people based on how long they watch your video for. So if you have a minute long video and someone has watched it for longer than 30 seconds, you have a warm client moving to a potential hot client and can target them. It’s phenomenal. So that in itself is crazy that you can do that.

Then when you see people get out there and network, I know a lot of people are like, ‘Oh I don’t know what to say, I don’t know what to do.’ Even if you don’t say anything, it’s better than not going at all. Use it as a stepping stone. And if you say ‘Hi’ to one person, and then say hi to two people, then three. People want to buy from people and I say that all the time. But also people want to connect with people. In a world where we are so based on technology, we feel like we’re connected, yet we’re the most disconnected we’ve ever been in our lives. People want to see facial expressions, they want to hear you, they want to give you a hug and a kiss on the cheek. That’s the number thing with mums, they miss being with their friends. So I would say encourage you to go one networking group event a month, encourage yourself to get on Facebook Live once a week at least. Just get out there.

Nat: I love what you say that people buy from people and it’s 100 bazillion percent true. And I’ve found, because I think about it a lot and what is it that actually makes that. And I really feel that it’s the power of being able to relate to someone. Like if you think back to when you were in mother’s group, and if you had the baby who didn’t sleep and you felt like a wreck and you were so tired, but everyone else is out there pretending to be perfect, it just makes you feel like shit. Then if you get one mum that says, ‘Oh my god, me too, I had the shittest night, this motherhood thing is tough’, it instantly makes you feel better inside and you instantly connect and I think when you can replicate that into our content, it’s extremely powerful in business.

Angela: Absolutely and I think that you touched on something there I think is important. I don’t know who everyone’s main client is but for Finlee and Me it’s mums with kids. So last night I hopped on line, I was on my stationary bike watching Suits on Netflix and I just went Facebook Live. My entire living room was trashed with laundry piles, I’ve got my son going to camp this week, I was huffing, I could barely speak, but I don’t want mums to feel like everything on their newsfeed is perfect and this is how life is. I can’t remember how many people viewed it, I think a few hundred people viewed it and they were liking and it was just a quick 2 or 3 minute video. But what I’m saying is, don’t feel like you have to have your office completely set up, your hair done or your make up done, just go live. Because the more authentic you are, the more vulnerable you are, means people are more likely to connect with you.

Nat: My equivalent to your Facebook Live is the blogs that I write and also the shorter ones that I post in the Remarkables Facebook Group, and the ones that I’m always vulnerable or say something that I’m a little bit worried about saying or worried that people might think I’m a bit shit from are always the ones that rate the best just because of that relatable content.  But then I look at blogs like Constance Hall and she has a lot of haters. I mean she’s super super popular, lots of people love her and again, this is just the stuff that ticks through my brain each day, wondering about these type of things. I can sort of see… I can make an assumption on what’s happened there. I think she grew so quickly because she did exactly that. She was so real and people loved and connected to her because of that, because they felt good for not always having their shit pulled together. But I feel like the most important thing is to always add on to the end of it, like you’ve got to have something to back you up. You’ve got to back it up with the goods. So I always start myself with my blogs like, that was then and this is now. Because otherwise I think there’s potential for haters to come out and do like what they’ve done to Constance Hall which is slam her because I feel like she’s never backed it up with like, I’m still an awesome mum. Not that you have to do that all the time, but I think it’s skewed too much the wrong way.

Angela: It is a tricky balance and I think when you get too much into the media eyes you’re going to get haters too. And unfortunately because she grew so fast, the haters grew equally as fast just because of the nature of how it all went down. But I do think again though, whether or not you’re blogging or you’re getting on a Facebook Live or whatever you’re doing, at the end of the day it still needs to be targeted to your ideal client. Because if I was there last night, sweating to death and watching Suits and my laundry was everywhere, and I posted in an all boys weightlifting group, it’s not congruent. Always remember the message and the branding that I’m doing with my business and ask is it congruent with my target audience? I think sometimes that’s where Constance may get herself into trouble. The topics go from here to here to here and go a bit berserk.

I’m not saying that I’m perfect. Some people don’t like one of the articles I wrote…I’m very passionate about mental health. I can’t remember the name of it….something around letting your kids take a day off school to nurture their mental health. 80% of the public was happy with it but there was 20% who were like, how dare you take your child out of school, how dare you do this. And I’m like, well I’m all about preventative measures and teaching kids about coping skills. And we as adults take days off to veg out on the couch so why can’t the child also have a day off? It doesn’t mean that he’s lazy, it doesn’t mean that I’m a bad mum, it just means that I can understand that he is emotionally unwell at the moment, not saying that he has a mental illness, just that he’s emotionally unwell. The same with us, if we take a day off it doesn’t mean we have a full blown mental illness it just means that we need a day to recoup. And if someone had a broken leg, that would be ok, but if someone’s head is spinning too much with anxiety or depression or whatever, it’s not ok to lay on the couch. I don’t see how that’s ok. And I had some hate mail! How dare you encourage mothers to do this. How dare you dismiss the school. And I was like, that has nothing to do with it. At the end of the day my son’s needs are the most important.

Nat: So I’m glad that you segued into that, because I’ve attracted some trolls and haters, only on a small scale but still, it’s a little polarising when it starts to happen. So what I was going to ask you is, has it happened more than that, and if so or if not, how do you feel about it? Does it dent you a little bit and you have to pick yourself up from it or do you just roll on from it?

Angela: When it first started I’d be like a sobbing mess, ‘How dare they?’ because anyone who knows me knows that my heart is exceptionally big and I’m a very big giver and I would never go out to hurt anyone intentionally. So when it first started, I was like, ‘What the hell? Why are people doing this?’ But what I’ve realised over the last 7 years is that it’s not about me. They’re projecting their own stuff, whatever that is, onto me and I literally just delete and go. I used to spend hours and hours, depending on what it would be about, on people, because I also think that sometimes you do have to be controversial, you can’t be prim and proper all the time. I’m not encouraging you to be crazy all the time but sometimes it’s good to get your audience….

And so when that happened I used to respond to every comment but then it only fuels them for the most part. If they’re generally not a troll and just want to say something, they’ll say thank you for this but I still stand in this, normally. But if it’s a troll they just won’t stop. So it’s not worth my emotional time to take that time from my family so I just delete then and there. And I have no problems deleting anymore, none whatsoever.

Nat: Yeah I think that’s really interesting to know because I know there’s a lot of debate about how you should respond to a troll so it’s almost a relief that you just delete and ban, because some people feel that you shouldn’t delete for X reasons or whatever. But I’m still, I can’t say I’ve nailed feeling content and being able to move past trolls super quickly because I’m like you and I have a massive heart and I care so much about what I do, and I’m slowly scaling back how much I care about what other people think but it’s a transition for me because I’ve come from a place of wanting to help and trying to be the best person I can be and needing to be able to sleep at night, so when there’s people out there who are conflicted about something I’ve done or said, it’s a learning curve for me to able to just shut down and I’m definitely getting better at it but in my mind …. Yeah it’s still something that I’m learning to not pay any attention to any more. And it also tracks back to when I asked you about staying small because sometimes when people aren’t on board with what you say it can lead you to a place of questioning if you’re good enough and if you’re good enough and tracks you back to a place of fear mindset. So I think if you let it, haters and trolls can be really detrimental but for me I would never let them….I’ve almost come out of It stronger. I would never let them stop me doing what I’m doing because what I’m doing is so much bigger than that and there’s so many more happy people, like its seriously like 1 or 2 percent so I think you’ve got to stay true to your vision and your why and why you’re doing what you’re doing and that’s what’s helping me move past them.

Angela: Absolutely and everyone will do things differently and my way isn’t necessarily the right way, I just know from…. I needed to cut it off now because I was too emotionally involved and I had to cut it away. Everyone will do it slightly different, but I would just say listen, don’t give them any more time than is necessary.

Nat: What if they post something on a third party website where you actually can’t delete it?

Angela: Yep that’s happened to me, only just recently funnily enough. This particular client bought a product from me and I don’t answer emails on Saturdays and Sundays which my autoresponder says. This lady then blasted me on the Monday, and blasted me even though I’d responded on the Monday, and next thing you know I had an automated, because they’d linked Finlee and Me to my address, I got the notification that someone had posted on this third party place about me so I was like alright yep no worries. So I basically emailed them and said, look I’ve spoken to my lawyer and at the end of the day what you have done is completely incorrect and you’ve got 24 hours to take it down. And so they took it down because they knew I meant business. Based on the emails, based on the documentation, if you put that in front of a judge, I’ve got everything here to say that I responded to you about an order. And I just look at it, there are people dying in the world on a regular basis. If you’re going to get that crazy because I didn’t email you on a Saturday or Sunday, over a $35 toy, that’s not my problem, that’s them. And what it came out to funnily enough, this particular person I found was a competitor of mine. When that particular person had that information on the website, the link came back with their business name, so I also think …. Initially I had no time for it but there was a few emails back and forth to talk about the lawyers and it eventually got taken down, and I screenshotted everything because sometimes you also have to play hard ball. I could have cut it off but my other thing was, no, you’ve done the wrong thing. You’ve gone to a third party and that’s defamation of character and that’s not ok. I’ve got no problem with making sure they know that.

Nat: I one hundred percent agree. I had a Kidspot article come out a few weeks ago and someone slammed me on it. It was totally inappropriate. I emailed and I said, ‘I don’t know what your problem is but how about we have a conversation about it?’ And instead of replying to me, she replied to me on the Kidspot article again. Like don’t contact me. And it was like, ‘Well don’t’ write on my post then!’ And I just wrote back to her and said well this is defamation and you’re going to be hearing from my lawyers. For me what made me feel better about the situation is, not that it got to that point because it was all deleted and put to bed, but next time it happens I’m going to lawyer up so quickly. I don’t have the brain space for it. I’ll be like lawyer, deal with it, slam them for it because if it falls under defamation or slander it’s totally in that department and I can’t deal with the mental capacity of it, so I’ve already put my action plan into place. Lawyer up straight away. Because you’re right, defamation on line is massive and if you have the grounds for it and you can show damages and loss of income or loss of reputation, there have been some major cases where people have been completely hammered legally from that. So it is super serious.

Angela: I totally agree and that’s what I do and unfortunately I’ve had to do it a couple of times with a couple of people over the years and I guess that’s why I’m a lot more… I’m very emotionally attached to my community but I can also become very detached, when I need to be.

Nat: So, to wrap it up I want to chat to you about one thing that I’ve been super inspired and excited about and this is where I feel that we are very similar because a couple of months ago I went over to LA to see Oprah at Super Soul Sessions and I really did that for a self development and wanting to always be learning to be the best that I can be. So when I learned that you were doing something similar, going to America to this big event in February, the social media ….

Angela: The Social Media Examiner in February, yep…

Nat: Yep, I found it totally inspiring because you’re a mum, you’ve got kids and a lot of mums feel they can’t leave their kids in order to travel across the world and invest in themselves, and then when you said, ‘I think you should come’, and even though I didn’t really  know you, I said, ‘Ok done deal!’ Because I could just tell that you were my type of person. So do you want to give everyone a little background like what are your thoughts around that, more so in terms of…. Because I know that not everyone can leave their kids, some people have younger kids, some don’t have a husband to take over, but I think that it’s really a conversation that we should have. So what are your thoughts about doing that?

Angela: When I first started Finlee and Me I had to do the Pregnancy and Baby Expos and they were like a turnkey, so you’d start in Melbourne, then go to Sydney, Adelaide, Brisbane and WA and so from a very early stage I was doing those expos without my husband and without Finlee. Then I had Chloe and remember distinctly that she was only about 8 weeks old and I knew I couldn’t take her down there because when you set up you’re not allowed to have kids there and I didn’t have anyone to watch her, so I pumped enough breast milk for my husband for the 5 days I was going to be gone and I just got on a plane and had to leave. Did I miss them? Absolutely! But what I found is that I still need to be able to put my own needs first and that’s ok. So that’s one example. Going to America, as the kids are getting older, Chloe is 4 and Finlee will be 8 in August, so I’m also modelling to them appropriate work ethic, that it’s ok to put yourself first, that I still love them even though I’m far away and I’ll still miss them even though I’m far away. Life will never be perfect but it’s going to be as perfect as I can make it.  Also my family is from Canada and the US and my dads down there and he’s getting older so its important for me to go over there and spend some one on one time with my dad, and I’m not always off doing kid activities. My best friend from Canada will also be flying down so I’ll be able to hang out with her and obviously learn. So for me, it’s something that I need and it’s ok to give myself permission to go and do that.

Nat: I love that and what you said about setting an example for our kids is something that I really resonated with because I work a lot, not because I have to but because I love it so much and every now and again people will say but are you still spending enough time with your kids? Or what sort of example are you setting? And I always turn around and say, I’m teaching my 8 year old daughter how to go after her dreams and how to live in her purpose and see that when you are committed and when you are putting your everything into something, the types of amazing things you can have as a result. So I think that there’s a bit of a mindset that you shouldn’t leave your kids, you can’t travel overseas, they need you to be there 24/7 but I feel like it’s the opposite, I feel like I have a responsibility to show my daughter what is possible when we put our minds to something.

Angela: And I think if we don’t, we’re actually being neglectful to ourselves so I think it’s kind of like balance, and I know that word gets thrown around a lot but we can sometimes overcompensate for our kids. I read a report recently that on average, mothers spend 3 hours more time a week with their kids than they used to back in the sixties. That’s 3 hours – that’s 12 hours a month! Do we want to? Absolutely! Yet we still feel guilty even though we’re spending more time. So I don’t think there’s ever going to be the perfect time. We need to get out of what media keeps saying or what other mothers keep saying and just do what’s right for your family and what’s right for you because no one will know your family or you better than anyone else.

Nat: 100% and I honestly believe it’s like what we chatted about before and that harmony is more important than balance and if I spend an hour of quality time with my kids but then I work for the next 10 hours, as long as they’re happy, feel secure, loved and are content than that’s totally fine. I think that balance is a bit overrated and harmony is more important. So yes I work a lot but my house is extremely happy and my kids know they’re loved and are very content. Then again, not saying that everyone has to jump on a plane to America to do that because I know that again, sometimes its super hard, but sometimes just smaller things like ProBlogger that we’re going to or somewhere that’s in your local area and network, small steps at a time, and if you feel inspired to go to the bigger things, then do that.

Angela: Absolutely there’s a million things you can do, and I always think that gosh forbid if I died tomorrow, have I created memories with my kids? Absolutely. Will they know how much we love them? Absolutely. If you can’t say that, then you’ve probably got a problem. But if you can generally go if I drop dead tomorrow…then you’re kicking ass really.

Nat: I love that so much. Well it’s been so amazing to talk to you. I’m so appreciative of your time and all your insights and all of your advice. So thank you so much.

Angela: Thank you so much, I can’t wait to hang out at ProBlogger and in LA!

Nat: I’m super super excited about that!